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Post by Julia of Hillsdown on Jan 7, 2005 15:03:33 GMT -5
Euhm, sure miss...please take a seat, I'll be right back.
*the cleric leads Aurora to a bench.*
Please sit here for a moment, I'll be right back.
*And indeed, the cleric's back before Aurora has had a chance to get comfortable. Not that that'd been very likely on this bench...*
Back, miss. Where is your brother?
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Post by Dmitri Darken on Jan 7, 2005 15:11:10 GMT -5
Aurora stands again when she returns.
Please... follow me. We have to hurry.
Aurora heads out of the church and towards the slums.
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Post by Julia of Hillsdown on Jan 7, 2005 15:15:02 GMT -5
*the cleric follows Aurora out of the church, a bit nervously. She's fairly new here, and still doesn't know her way around the Slums very well.*
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Post by Rena Landis Firesong on Jan 14, 2005 13:55:37 GMT -5
(She walked out of the kitchen and headed straight for her bunk bed. She pulled her bag out from underneath it and started putting on her armor.
She wouldn't allow this. Not even from a man as good as Jingzu. No... especially not from someone like him. Not from such a hero.)
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Themis
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by Themis on Apr 30, 2005 11:37:49 GMT -5
A small Gnome walks into the Church, finds a more or less empty wall, and takes out her piece of chalk.
GODS? POWERS!! FRAUDS!!
DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR GO ENJOY THE SUNSHINE[/size]
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Post by Rumerin on Feb 4, 2006 12:59:36 GMT -5
*Rumerin hums and leans against the cool wall of the church. He is sitting in a bit of a draught from the doors, but he does not really care much. His leg casually slung over the other, he listens to a debate of two female clerics, sitting at a little table nearby. It is late in the day and these two have a bit of time on their hands. They pay no heed to the short, elderly Gnomish man who has been sitting there for hours, just listening in. Rumerin smiles with Gnomish lips.*
... that you cannot deny. Good is the driving force of this Multiverse. It is the one element, the personification of life. Everything drives toward Good.
That's nonsense. How do you explain Fiends? Or just plain selfish people?
I'll get to selfishness. It is both Good and Evil. See, what I mean with Good, is that elemental drive towards the survival of the community. Think about it. Murder is Evil, yeah? But why? Is it Evil at like a higher scale of existance? No! It is called Evil because it endangers the order, the stability of the community. It endangers the survival of the community, either by threatening from outside- like war- or inside, when one of the community murders another.
That's a bit far-fetched.
No, no, think about it. Theft is Evil, yeah? Why? Because it, again, endangers stability. If you plunder the community chest, the community will have less money to afford food, and so their odds of survival decrease. That is bad. That is why people call it Evil. However, if you steal from like a rich tyrant and give his money to the poor, you ensure a safer community and increase people's survival chances. So that is what we call Good.
*The cleric looks terribly triumphant. She is a Human of average height and built, with very short-cut hair, dyed a bright purple. She is wearing vestments and holy symbol of Boccob. Her friend is a Dwarf in a traditional Moradin robe, with many beaded braids in long brown hair.*
So how is selfishness good and evil?
It is Good as long as it benefits survival of the group. Once it benefits only survival of the individual it is Evil, because the sole survival of the individual must always go at the cost of the survival of the group.
Okay, I guess I can see what you mean. You mean that Good and Evil are labels people give to things that are Beneficial or Not.
Exactly.
Can't agree with that.
*The Dwarf shifts a little uneasily.*
Why not? Hey, take this example. Adultery. Is it bad? Yeah, people agree that it is. Why? Because if a woman sleeps around, her husband can no longer be sure the offspring is his. It is not beneficial to him and his family to be bringing up offspring for someone else. Therefore, it is Evil. Likewise, if a man sleeps around, the woman can no longer be sure that he will continue to take care of the family he has with her. See my point?
Yeah... I guess... But...
*Rumerin chuckles.*
Pardon me for interrupting, ladies...
*He smiles winningly. The girls look over to him questioningly.*
... but I couldn't help but overhear the discussion. That is a really clever theory you have there.
*The cleric of Boccob smiles proudly.*
Thank you.
You're welcome. But I wondered, if Good is Beneficial, wouldn't everything be Good? I mean, surely Fiends and selfish people would see that Good is the only way. That Evil is stupid, you know.
*The cleric nods seriously.*
I think they will. They should. Those who are Evil simply do not understand that their path must eventually lead to their own destruction. Think of my example with murder. It is bad for the community. In return, the community withdraws itself from the murderer, who then finds his own chances of survival dramatically decreased. In the end, or perhaps with a good explanation, even Fiends will see that Good is the only way for everyone to prosper. So the Multiverse must eventually boil down to a place that knows only Good. It is the only intelligent way.
*Rumerin smiles pleasantly.*
I see. But look at yourself, now. You are working in this church, what? Twelve hours a day? Longer? You are slaving away for the good of the community. Certainly this is Good. Certainly it is beneficial. Yet barely anyone in town follows your example. In fact, the people leading this community, whether they be Council or otherwise, are not the most helpful, Good people.
Perhaps not in the traditional sense. But in my sense of the word- beneficial to communal survival- most people are, in fact, Good. From the carpenter to the butcher to the dustmen to the Council, everyone does their part to ensure communal survival. Which is Good.
Not necessarily. A powerful person might benefit the community for purely selfish means. My point is, they are not trying to ensure communal survival. They are looking out for themselves only. The thing is that communal survival, for the time being, coincides with their objectives. At best the two issues coexist. At worst, communal survival is a means to their own ends and will be discarded as soon as those ends are achieved. If you think to "open the eyes of the Fiends" you are a long way from home. Even in Evil societies- think Drow, think Fiend, so on and so forth- you find society, but never the drive to communal survival. It is not the Good, the beneficial, who rule such a society, but the strong, who think only of their own benefit.
*He is still smiling.*
The fact of society there is merely a side-effect, or rather, caused by the leader's benefits in having one. When all strive for that position of leader, society will be maintained because all know that society must support the position of leader. There is no communal survival, no "Good" involved, however. Murder and theft can support such a society as well as the orderly lines- better, in fact. So I don't think you can quite equate Good with Beneficial to the Community. It follows, then, that Good is a more abstract notion, after all.
*Rumerin chuckles and watches the two women. The Dwarf shakes her head, making the braids jump and dance around her face. The Human blinks a few times. It is hard to see if she is baffled by the argument or by the fact that it just came from an elderly Gnome. Rumerin hums softly. He knows that if she went and sat down with him, she could likely argue many of his points, and he would have to come up with something else. She had a good point. But she is a little too confused at the moment to be looking for argumentative flaws, and he knows it. He relishes the look of confusion on her face.*
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